Imam Afroz Ali lectures around the world on topics like spirituality, human development, ecological wellbeing, and ethical rights and responsibilities, among others. A founding member of the Australian Religious Response to Climate Change, he is also an Australian Ambassador to the Charter for Compassion. He joins us to discuss how economy — in its truest sense — is about frugality, and therefore a new economics needs to be adopted that measures frugality and its beneficial results, as opposed to profitability through consumption and denying its consequences.